Cereal Music Talks x ŽIVA
Real conversations about sound, creativity, and the journeys that shape them.
Join me (ŽIVA aka Lucija Ivsic), a Croatian-Australian musician and new media artist, as I explore the complexities of music careers with emerging fellow musicians and sound artists. Through honest discussions, I dig deeper into the challenges of navigating new scenes, forging unique paths, and finding success in niche genres.
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Cereal Music Talks x ŽIVA
Trusting the Process
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Nū is an Ethiopian-Australian sound artist, vocalist and live coder* whose work blends non-Western musical traditions, improvisation and Afrofuturism. Using the live coding program Sonic Pi and her vocals, she creates immersive sonic worlds, weaving elements from ambient, jazz, R&B and electronic music.
On an overcast Tuesday morning in Collingwood, Nū and I met at Trainscendence - a venue tucked away in a laneway just off Easey St that is a living, breathing hub for artists, makers, dreamers, and doers. We talked about the path towards doing art full time, negotiating artists fees and just trusting the process (instead of trying to control everything).
Music: ŽIVA - Idle Heart, NŪ - Tezetaye
About the guest: https://nu-nu.bandcamp.com/
About the venue: https://www.trainscendence.com.au/
To stay updated and get access to exclusive content, subscribe to my monthly newsletter. You can also connect with me on Instagram for more updates.
Okay, difficult today is even you're listening to Stereo Music Talk, the podcast where I sit down with niche resistance and sound artists based in Melbourne to talk about the real challenges we face in the industry, whether it's the creative process, identity, social media dread, or just the question of whether it's even possible to be a full-time artist in Melbourne. And for this 2026 season, I'm also bottling venues across Melbourne that are run by local musicians, and enthusiasts who are actively supporting the local scene. For this February episode, I sat down with Bettler Wendy Monega, aka New, an Ethiopian Australian sound artist, vocalist, and live coder whose work plans non-Western musical traditions, improvisation, and active futurism. We actually met in a very special venue called Transcendence that's tucked away in the heart of Collingwood. And it's not just any venue or a studio or just a gallery, a coworking space. It's actually a living hub for artists, makers, dreamers, and doers. Petla, welcome. Welcome to serial music talks, but to a venue called Transcendence. We're like literally on top of a building in Collingwood. Crazy. And there's a train carriage. There's there are a few trains around us. It's shit. It's crazy, right? It's really nice. I like this venue. Yeah, yeah, I like it too. That's why we're here today. I feel like it's a nice day. A bit overcast, but it's not. I think we would die if it's yeah, like sunny.
SPEAKER_00:This is how I prefer it, to be honest. Yeah. Gentle light, you know? Oh, okay. Instead of sun shining in my eyes.
SPEAKER_01:I'm still learning what is the best, you know, at Google because I'm not a film video person. True. So I was like, what is the best time of day to film? But then sometimes you just can't. You're busy, and I'm incredibly grateful that you could find time. Like I know that you are just about to start your live coding workshop at MES. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but also you just had a screening of the film you've made, being, of course, at the Coburg uh Drive in Cinema. Yeah? With uh Caru Odji, if I said it right. Yeah, correct. So really busy here, and it's only February. I know. How are you feeling? How how did the screening go?
SPEAKER_00:It went really well. Um yeah, like it premiered in Sydney, so I went up to Sydney, but I couldn't unfortunately I couldn't make it to the drive-in. Okay. Um, but I heard really good things and yeah, it's been really nice. It's my first time ever like scoring something. But I guess like I make ambient stuff, so it makes sense, you know? True.
SPEAKER_01:Feel me, ambience, I don't know. But you also scored um because I've seen like I I uh you said it that it's your first time, but I've also seen some of your earlier work for Signal for City of Melbourne. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was it was did that feel like scoring as well?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I guess similar. It was like that was my first proper recorded live-coded thing. Um and yeah, actually I worked, you're right, I worked for the film a screen person.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I read amy. And I read a little bit about it, and it was about, you know, you looking at the video. So I wondered, you know, did you work simultaneously or was it like you you got the video and then you made the music? And music is really interesting, it actually goes from ambient to a proper RB.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I was really surprised, like it it was really nice because you managed to blend those two genres really well.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. That's really nice. Yeah, I mean those are my roots to be honest. Like I grew up on RV, and then I think just more recently, or like you know, in the last five, six years, that's when I really got into ambient and more electronic sounds and stuff. But my basis is, you know, some Destiny Child, some RB, some Erica's, some D'Angelo R.I.P. Oh my goodness, and a lot of soul music and stuff. So thank you for noticing, that's really cool.
SPEAKER_01:How you know, I feel like that's at least what I can do for the interview, but it's also like I'm I'm I'm genuinely interested, you know, like in the pathway and like how you know what would the steps that you did, and like what did you do and how did you got, you know, landed to this point. So you have now um this workshop coming up and you've done the scoring, I guess, you know, how much energy like for this uh workshop in particular, I feel like it's a big deal. Yeah, because um, you know, live coding in music performance is still quite a niche thing, although it's been around for a long time among sound artists and like contempt yeah, yeah, like experimental art scene. But now bringing it to Mess, which is you know an establishment of electronic music sound gear, like I feel like it's a big step. So, how do you feel about it? Like, are you nervous? Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm nervous, but I'm also really excited, and you know, someone told me it's the same thing, like nervous and excitement. It's actually the same physiological thing in your body, which is crazy. So it's just a framing thing, but absolutely like I think you know, I've done workshops and workshop facilitation for quite a while. Um but I think to run I think we're doing nine workshops in six weeks, and to do that, you know, completely with basically my vision, but also with heaps of support from Mel Huang, who's an amazing creative technologist. Um it just feels yeah, really big, but also such an honor to do it at Mess. Like you said, they're just they're so nice and amazing and like the cornerstone of synthesizers and you know what I mean, like they symbolize a really beautiful um place for me. Uh and before Mess, like I don't know, I was sort of intimidated by synthesizers and analog synths and I thought it would be a bro zone. You know what I mean? I thought it would just be like white bros the whole the whole way and like really intimidating and but then I did a workshop there and I was like damn okay, this place is like the rainbow, it's beautiful here, lovely. Yeah, and there's like heaps of fans and like gender diverse people and they're so welcoming. Um so yeah, I feel like I've done all their courses there. Oh really?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, basically, synth start, uh professional development. I just done done the synth start as well. So good, and same, I completely resonate with what you're saying because it's like, yeah. I was like, what is this? Oh my goodness, you know. And then it's like nice, just like a toy with which you can play.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. And it's not that deep, but it also is really deep if you want to look into it. Yeah, yeah. But like the way I think they teach it and share it is so inspiring, and I guess yeah, has really informed my practice. And yeah, those same principles I hope will go into this course of just like openness and um yeah, it's sort of half residency, half course, because we'll be learning together in an interesting way.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and there's gonna be a performance at the end of like I yeah, okay. Yeah. I'm very excited to I don't know if it's gonna be open for public, but it would be cool to see the results because yeah, for sure. I do, you know, do you struggle to explain to people your performance? What is a live code, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Me too. You do and like you, how do you how do you go about it? What do you say?
SPEAKER_00:What do I say? I think it's like definitely developed over time. Um, but I basically say this is the spiel.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, on this elevator pitch. You should do it in the elevator.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay, we should go to the elevator.
SPEAKER_01:It's a slow elevator, so you can you can do an essay over there.
SPEAKER_00:I was really wavy. I was like, this this thing's gonna make me make me late. Um but so I say that I use computer programming code to um generate the sound of my performance. And instead of twiddling knobs of like a synthesizer, I type in different numbers. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um so I do it a bit more manually on So to to have an example, like if you wanna filter out something instead of turning the knob of the filter, high pass, low pass, yeah, you um and you're doing it in Sonic P? Is that right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Sonic Pi. Pi. And yeah, it looks the same. But yeah, I usually I usually use uh Sonic Pi, but I'm moving to Strudel now. Okay. Uh which is another uh another language. Okay, you know, there's there's quite a few live coding programs and languages and they're all free and open source. Yeah, those are here with a standard, which is amazing. Like it's much cheaper than a synthesizer, and you can apply all the synthesis um principles and you know, work with soundwares and do all the filters and everything if you want, which is really cool. It's a cheap alternative.
SPEAKER_01:That's great, that's so cool. That's really cool. And last year you had a really big, I guess, year. You had your debut uh Debbie album, Takenifrow 185. Congratulations on that. Thank you. And it really was praised, highly praised everywhere, and I feel like it was really I don't know, I feel like you know, looking at your career, um, reading about you and like looking every the work that you've you know made public, it feels like you've been doing a lot of work for quite a long time, like relatively long time, but that this everything came together with this album. And I you mentioned in one of your interview for Mix Mug with Farah, you mentioned that um one of the tracks, and I'm not sure if I can Tezakae. Ah, Tezataye. Tezataya, yeah. Uh that you know it's about sort of um show it's it's it means nostalgia, yeah, but it's about actually showing others like hey, this is how far I've come, you know? And the way I've and I listened to the track, um, I watched the video as well. Great work. I also wondered, you know, does that come from a place where you feel like you've haven't been supported as an artist? That's a really good question.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think in some ways, like when I was younger, um I didn't have that much confidence to pursue creativity and like you know, come from ethnic family, you know, go go the science route, go the engineering major route. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know. So that that went into that decision. Um so a little bit of that, it's like not a lack of support, I would say, not outward, but maybe not the same like definitely go follow this creative path, you know? Not the not the push to follow creativity because I don't know, it's a bit more unstable, you know, and it's not the most secure path. Um so there was definitely that. And then I remember a teacher, one of my teachers in high school told me to like just quit. He's like, Oh, you haven't started doing music now, but you dream of like doing C or whatever. And he was like, nah, don't do it, like just quit now. And that like lit my fire, man. It lit my fire.
SPEAKER_01:I'm glad that it lit your fire, not not like uh exhaust it, you know what like execute.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like like extinguish. Yeah, extinguished. That was the word, not exactly. Exhausted that fire. Execute.
SPEAKER_01:But for real, same thing, you know what I mean? That's really bad. That's not a good teacher.
SPEAKER_00:I know, but there's so many, there's so many teachers out there and people that like as soon as you maybe share your dreams, they might, you know, tell you not to go about it or like follow them. And that's really sad, but it's quite like you know, heaps of my friends have similar stories of this person, that person, maybe teachers um in their past, like having that same uh vibe of like nah, don't do it. Um so there's that, but I think also just I had a lot of stage fright to be honest. And so I wasn't my biggest supporter for so long. You know, like I have been singing my whole life since I was really little, and it's been such a therapeutic me thing. Um but I was just so shy. Like I only got over my stage frack because I went back to school a few years ago for music performance finally. Yeah. Um, because I was like, you know, if I don't follow my dreams, who's gonna do it for me? Exactly. I have to do it. And I don't wanna like wake up in 10 years, 20 years, and regret all of what I haven't done. Amen.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I know, I know.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. Yeah, I exactly. You literally have to stand for yourself, like completely blindly almost trust in what you are doing.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, and you can't look outward because that's where it becomes really unstable, yeah, and maybe one person will say, Oh that wasn't for me, or uh or someone else will do this or that, and then it just breaks you. Like you really do have to look inward and like be your own biggest supporter. Um and I'm still learning that though. Like, I don't know, confidence is such an up and down journey.
SPEAKER_01:Especially when you're exposing yourself, you know, as and and being vulnerable, you know, through every single thing that you're doing. So doesn't mean that you know you really self-identify a lot with does is is everything that you do as new um sort of what you are as a person? Is it is it you know your identity as fiddler?
SPEAKER_00:I I don't know. I think so. Like I think I immers myself when I'm singing and like that whole project TechnoPro 185, like I've been consciously and unconsciously working on it for the last six, seven years, you know what I mean? Um and it's like a product of all those improv jams uh and like flow state moments where I'm just fully myself. Um and so in that way I do feel like new is me, like it's my story and it's it's like my spirit, I guess. Um but but yeah, who knows? I'm constantly changing as well, and like I wonder if I'll ever use another alias for a different project, if it will stop feeling like new. Um but for now new is still very much me, and it comes from like my nickname at home, which was Nunu. Yeah, why Nunu? I don't know, it's just like an Ethiopian one. Um, but it's also I think the name of the vacuum cleaner from Telly Tubbies. I know it is just so cute.
SPEAKER_01:I did watch Teletubbies, I don't remember Nunu, but of the I think there's a room with everything. Okay, I think we have to quick break with uh quick break for an ad. Okay, okay, change, okay. Uh yeah, we will have a little bit oh my goodness. Um I forgot about planes. That's okay. Um that's this is the other why. I love it. So still pretty professional, I must say. I like it. Uh well you have to I have those questions as well, but um you you sort of have to fake it until you make it. And I think it it's that saying sounds far much worse than um the reality, which is like you really have to trust in yourself like and be confident even when you're not.
SPEAKER_00:I know.
SPEAKER_01:And then you know, you're s you're telling me all this, like I I, you know, I I'm not surprised that there are confident issues because I feel like very often when you see an artist on on stage or just an artist who's really active and successful, there's so many, there's so many insecurities in the back, right? Absolutely. But then, you know, you made a huge leap, you're now full artist full-time. That's like bravo. That's like I'm so happy. When I read, I was like, you know, I know you majored in math, you know, you took the science part. I also know that you've been a facilitator, like doing a lot of workshops for the youth. But then, yeah, what do you feel like it was incremental? When when did it happen? Tell me, you know, did you just wake up and like, okay, I have to do this?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, like, it was definitely incremental. I think it's just that that need and that want um to make music or like share music just kept growing in me. So like I couldn't suppress it any longer, basically. But my whole life I've dreamt of singing. Like, I was so obsessed with American Idol, Australian Idol. Like, I watch every scene of American Idol. Like, I would just watch it all day. I think you dream about going there, like I was just like manifesting out the um although maybe that's not my scene now. I know reality TV.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, usually they're like no no no longer. Now I know a bit better.
SPEAKER_00:But um, yeah, I just like those were my dreams of like singing in front of people and sharing it because it was always like so personal. Um and yeah, in some ways I felt like I, you know, in uni blah blah like it felt like I was giving up on my dreams a little bit. Even though I'm glad I finished my degree, I'm very grateful I have it and it taught me how to work hard.
SPEAKER_01:Taught you also how to understand codes. Yeah, you know, like some basics of the code.
SPEAKER_00:For sure, like that's in a weird way. I've really used my degree now. And sometimes all those mini steps that you think are useless, like they're really useful. Even facilitating, I think it it was really hard at first doing public speaking, like it was like my worst nightmare. I was so shy. But then that's really helped me on stage now that I can talk to an audience and you know, maybe say a joke, or yeah, it helped with my stage fight in a really indirect, well actually quite direct.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's quite intentional, although I sort of, you know, I don't I'm sort of not believing in luck which I'm still not on, you know, and tri still trying to figure out if that's really what I'm yeah, I don't know. Where I'm at but but like I I I just feel uh because I also have a engineering background and PhD in computer science, yet I'm doing music, right? Yeah, and then but everything that I'm using right now to build sound installations, for example, actually is using uh uh tech uh technology that is in geospatial engineering where I major, like what I finished. And then in the computer science, it's all about music, technology, etc. But but it it it didn't even feel like I I was the same, you know, thinking, oh you know, I'm now using all of that. I also thought that I'm like lost, or I'm but then I'm now figuring it out and now talking to you and like talking to other people that have similar, you know, sort of very rhizomatic uh pathways in their careers and lives. Um I feel like it's you're I feel like you you've been working towards getting to this place where you're at right now. It's not accidental. Yes, it was very subtle and slow burner, but now you know, I feel like going into one practice made you learn a lot about maths, for example, and like facilitation. And instead of giving up on it and being superficial about it, you actually went really deep into it, you finished it. Yeah, but then you're like, okay, how can I, you know, sort of redirect that energy? For sure. I don't know if I'm explaining this right now.
SPEAKER_00:Right, you are. But it's like that sort of that realization that yeah, you might do the degree that seems completely unrelated, or you might do this job that feels really unrelated. Like even I worked in bars and stuff, just even talking to people and like getting to meet more creative people, that was really important for me. Um and yeah, even your whole background, that sounds incredible. Like I'm sure it's so useful for problem solving for installation. It's all about I think concepts, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well you said, you know, you your your your entire life you wanted to do music. I think that's in the back, you know, like that that was in the back of your head the entire time. That was in your heart the entire time, which means that you know you were actually focused.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like you were every time you would talk to people in bars, you would probably hear what you wanted to hear about, you know, what they're chasing, the questions that you've asked. You've asked those questions when you're studying maths. Maybe you were focusing on some other things. I sort of feel like you know, if you really know what you want to do, somehow you will pick those fruits from wherever you are. Yeah. From whatever you know, whatever you're doing. For sure. But yeah, I don't know. Probably at the moment where you're doing it, you're just like, what am I doing? Yeah, yeah. It always is.
SPEAKER_00:Is this really right? There's always so much doubt.
SPEAKER_01:And there's so much doubt. That's why I'm like, you know, you're now a full-time artist. Are you always in doubt?
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah. Okay, it is quite hard, but like it's just always learning, and like, you know, even though some steps felt really unrelated, like I still went back to school for music performance to build my confidence, and that was very directly like okay, I don't have confidence, but I want to do this thing, what will fill this gap right now? Okay. And so I went back to school, like TAFE, actually, Melbourne Polytechnic Music Performance. Love those people. Okay, they're really amazing. But um, yeah, like that was direct. But even though I did take some of the right steps that feel really directful or like directly related and some really unrelated, they all help me now, but yeah, like I don't know, even with a song, I'm sure most people relate, but maybe you relate, but like, is it ever done? You know? Yeah. Right? Like, is it ever perfect? There's no perfect, and there's always uncertainty, especially I think if you're like doing something like um working for yourself in any way, but working for yourself in art where there's no answers, um, there's always uncertainty, there's always doubt.
SPEAKER_01:But how do you deal with that? And certainly, is it like do you get into your head? Does it like do get yeah, like feeling bad about it, feeling bad about yourself, about your work?
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm for sure. But how do I deal with it? I don't know. This year, this year, like my intention or theme for the year is trust the process. And so it's like for me a reminder to just trust it a little bit more and maybe also focus on process and away from outcome. Because when I'm thinking about the end goal, the outcome, how people receive or perceive the thing, that's when I get in my head. And that's when I'm like completely in doubt, uncertain, and not feeling as good. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know. But I need to work on it, I don't deal with uncertainty very well, you know what I mean? Or instability, and like I'd love to say that it's such a stable, amazing, secure path, but it's it's always a risk being full-time. Like sometimes, you know, the the finances are okay, and sometimes they're not so okay. But that's what I've chosen. Yeah. And I would choose that any day over right now at least, um, over like Yeah, giving away all of my time, which I think is is really precious to me right now. To other people's ideas. To other people's ideas. That's how I see it. Exactly. Or other people that I don't want to collaborate with in that way. Yeah. You know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you gave it a I I think um the only way to do anything is to actually create time for that thing. So I sort of and I think this is also something that destroys me because I'm like so cruel in that sense, like, but it's about, you know, you want something, well, do it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like literally. I feel like there's no excuse. Yeah. Like when I hear excuses, uh, when I hear anything, like all the reasons, I'm like, those are all excuses. You're not daring to create space and just experiment. What is the worst thing that can happen? That's the you get out of like there are things, you know. I I understand you can not have enough money to pay rent. Then it's like I I understand, I'm not, you know. But have you actually tried? Like, are you only dwelling on the idea of like, oh, I could try art full time, but no, it's too hard, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's really great. I don't know, I just see there's so much potential when you create space to do those things. But I also think that you know, in order to do it successfully, you have to be disciplined. Yeah. And I feel like from you know, you do a lot of different work. Yeah, it's all music related. Yes. But I can see, you know, you're scoring for a soundtrack of the movie, you're doing a workshop, you're performing live, you're doing commission pieces for um, you know, uh City of Melbourne, or you've done also one uh one performance for the Sydney Opera House, you performed at Phoenix in Sydney. So like there's a lot of it feels like there's a lot of avenues where you're I guess maybe making money, but also like sustaining your career, not just financially. So I feel like you're disciplined. Well good time management.
SPEAKER_00:I'm glad, I'm glad you think that but no, I think you know, when I do look back on the last couple of years, like I am quite busy, like blessed, thank god. Like a thank god. Um, but I don't like discipline, I wonder, it could look very different to different people. I think I'm very good at working really hard in like small spouts, but I need like a good break. Uh-huh. And I'm getting better at doing that, otherwise I like burn out and like I'm a stress header, you know. I'm trying to get a bit better with like yeah, dealing with stress or grounding myself, even though there's like some, you know, like performances or this and that coming up. Because I have this like need and want to make it perfect, but that doesn't exist. Um but discipline, I don't know, like what does that look like? I guess I guess if it's like something that you really enjoy doing or want to be doing, it's like sort of easier to be disciplined.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like showing up. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Because you're showing up for yourself. Exactly. Like if your work defines you or not completely defines you, but if you really identify with your work and your art and see yourself in it, like I don't know, you really want to show up. It's like the biggest motivation ever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but I I think it's also the biggest trap.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's called burnt out. You know, like burnt you know like it's burnout. It's like I don't I think that's the recipe. Yeah. Well, I'm still finding a recipe for it where where the outcome won't be burnout.
SPEAKER_00:I know. Have you dealt with it? Because like you do installations and music too. I I don't know how my um and you do the podcast, like it seems like a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's this is the thing, right? Like it's all my projects. These are all my ideas or whatever, my seeds. Yeah. You know, and and I just get so excited about that, and I'm like, I have this fear that my my biggest nemesis is like time. I feel like if I don't act on this right this moment, so if I'm gonna, you know, it's gonna go away, something, you know, it will disappear, it's gonna be too late for me to do it. I'm gonna get old, too old, I don't know. Yeah. And so I as soon as I have an idea, I can't let it go.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. And that that causes me to like go into bad burnouts, and I I I can't stop. So the way I've been dealing with it, um, I guess I'm trying now to just do small steps on a daily basis. Like uh my first couple of hours in the morning, I don't interact with the phone. I'm trying to not interact with anyone, anything. Yeah, I only interact with my journal and just trying to sort of get to a point where I know how this day will look like today. I'm also trying to do the same it at night, like no phone in the bedroom, reading, just you know, like I have no notifications on my phone. So, like that was the barrier. Also, not looking at emails over the weekend, not working the weekend. Well, I'm working the weekend now, but yeah, you know, like yeah, just just those little things. Um, but the biggest one that I'm trying to tackle is, and I wanted to ask you about it, is like control. I feel like control over the outcome, control of the process. I sort of can't let it go. I just feel like I get this, like, oh I have to finish this tomorrow. This needs to be finished tomorrow. And then it's just like this anxious feeling, and then I'm like choking, yeah. I don't know how you how are you trusting the process?
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's why it's my word. That's why it's my phrase for the year, because I I really want to work on that. Like, I think a sense of control is really good though. Like, it leads to you know, something you're happy with most of the time, or like something you can be proud of and it can really push you, I think. At least for me. That sense of control can really push me and be a motivator.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:But I'm trying to find, yeah, less burnout vibes, more rest. And so I need to let go of control a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Um can you switch off? Like when you say rest, what is the you know, let's say you're now feeling like you're in this stage where you're gonna be burnt out at the end. Yeah. Do you do anything to adjust implement small rest uh points?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think when I'm like saying yes to projects or pieces of work or performances, I feel like yeah, I'm getting better at planning it in my calendar. I live by my calendar, by the way.
SPEAKER_01:And is it like a written thing? Yeah, you know, like.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, no, G Cal. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. If it's written, I will lose it. Okay. Okay, I will forget about it.
SPEAKER_01:I need it in the in the cloud, you know what I mean, where I can find it from any device. Yeah, that it finds you.
SPEAKER_00:It finds me! Exactly, exactly. Yeah, um, but yeah, rest is a big one for me. I think I'm finding like when I was really busy, I was sort of isolating myself just to work. And and I thought that was good because I'm like, hey, I'm getting more work done, and oh, socializing is really tiring for me. Blah blah. I made up all these stories, yeah. But honestly, I've been coming back to just like hanging out with my friends more who I love so much, and I'm finding that restful because when I'm with my friends, I forget about work sometimes. Okay, that's butch. Especially like the one-on-one intimate ones, or like going camping, or um, yeah, more of those wholesome activities, not necessarily around drinking. Sometimes I go out and sometimes you just need a big dance, right? Exactly. That can also release the stress from your body. But yeah, I find now that socializing, reconnecting with my people is like really restful. Um, going away to nature, walks. Um, but ideally I like organize my big projects so that the the deadlines are sort of in a similar space, and then I get like a good week.
SPEAKER_01:Uh-huh. So you actually have like a moment where like, oh, I have, you know, several deadlines right now. Yeah. Wow. Okay, that because that can be quite stressful as well. For sure. Like not having any, I guess, lead time, like any free time in between projects.
SPEAKER_00:Nah, for real. But I make sure like now because I sort of sort of have um like a little bit more power over deadlines or suggesting when things will be done. Like I'm getting better at planning them sort of in like the same month, maybe. So then I know I have like a good week or two weeks off. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:That's actually like a tactic. Yeah. Like a strategy. Yeah. Strategy that actually allows you to get time, have time.
SPEAKER_00:Otherwise it never ends. But I need to even booking holidays. You know, like a camping trip away, or going overseas like somewhere close, like or even yeah, just saying no. Saying no, oh my god, that's powerful too. I've been a bit better last year, but with saying no, I think that's also a thing. I think when you're trying to build something, um it's also sort of like part of it to say yes to everything at the start. Yeah. But then you start saying no, and that is also really empowering. I think that's when I found a little bit more like actually I don't have to do this.
SPEAKER_01:And my future self will uh really love me right now if I said no, you know what I mean? Yeah, but do you feel like guilty or sometimes if you're like saying no, like what is the feel what is the or if you're like not doing enough, do you have those situations? Like I'm I'm just trying to figure out if this is you know, since I've been just doing art full time. Yeah, it's just like this these feelings are there every day, like oh you know, should I hustle more or should I also do this? Or like, yeah, when when a when an opportunity arises, you're like, Can I say no? Like I'm just emerging, no one knows about me.
SPEAKER_00:I know. Well, it just really depends. Hey, like, I think the ones I say no to are either if I just don't have capacity, like if I said yes, I would be so stressed out of my mind because of everything else that I couldn't do a good job. Yeah. Or like I could just see myself like having a little menti bee, you know, over just having too much on. Yeah. In those cases I say no when it's just too much. Um but that's wise.
SPEAKER_01:That that's like a wise, uh, you know, wise person saying.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. But it's come from the menti bees, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Where I'm like, actually I can't keep doing this. Like it's too much. Yeah, you sort of have to burn yourself out. Two hands. Lesson learned. Lesson learned, and it's many times on the mentian. And it's still gonna be many of them. Of course. You know, you do a lot of different you you have many different avenues where your art lives, but then there are also many different avenues where labor works in the music and general art, right? Like we're talking all about admin, hustle, promotion, management, uh correspondence, uh, you know, booking, uh publishing. Yeah. So how do you feel about all that? Oh my god. Yeah. I guess the first question is um, do you work alone?
SPEAKER_00:No, no. I thankfully I work with my friend Yang, um, who's my agent. Shout out to Yang. Um, at Cast Agency, but she's also, yeah, just like a really close friend. Okay. So has been there since the beginning. Um, but we've been working together for a couple of years. So she handles my booking.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and yeah, it was like a blended model of like management support booking kind of thing, which was really, really amazing and helpful just to have someone to talk to. Um, yeah. Because yeah, I think that's half of it, right? Like just having a second eye on this or that and um like a confidant, you know what I mean? Like someone you can just g up with real quick, like, hey, I got a question, like, what do you reckon? Yeah. Um, especially when you're like building up your discernment and understanding of where you want to go, how you want things to you know, pan out. But I manage myself at the moment, and yeah, like I feel like I've from my consulting background, like pretty good at organizing stuff. Got my MIRA board, my strategy, my little thing.
SPEAKER_01:Is that like a MIRA board, like a manifestation board? Or no, I need to do that though. Like, what do you have on your MIRA board? Like if you want to share something.
SPEAKER_00:I really love planning, so I think um I've got what do I have? I've got like some dream gigs that I wanna do, and I have like a every month calendar and like some of my bigger deadline things coming down, like coming in. Um and maybe some big plans of when I wanna um write my next work or like work on music stuff like more intensely. Because I actually do I think now I understand my process a little bit better, I think I do find it hard to do little bits of music here and there, but rather I need just peace and quiet and like deep time, you know, over this week I'm going away to do this, or you know what I mean? So I want to manifest more residencies this year because I realise that my vibe and I I haven't done many at all, so well manifesting residency also means applying for residency.
SPEAKER_01:I know I know which also means updating your biography, your electronic press kit, having good videos, having good right?
SPEAKER_00:Literally, so that part I find really difficult. The I'm really good at the planning and like have good motivation to apply for grants and that kind of thing. But promoting like all the I need to send y'all some pictures or something, you know what I mean? I need to update my biopics, all of these things are in the back of my head, but I just put them low on my priority list. But I think promotion or at least just sharing some of my process is a goal of mine this year. Um, and finding a way that I find it natural to share my work, because I maybe I don't know what it is, it's part of that shyness or that stage fight or perception and vulnerability.
SPEAKER_01:But it's also like, you know, are we so when you say you know promotion, like sharing your process, for example, am I right in thinking that you're talking about social media? Yes. So the way I think about it is like fuck that. Oh my god. So first of all, fuck that. But then the second thing is like this is how I see it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:This, you know, this platform, all these platforms, you know, you're an artist who do work live coding music. It does not in any point, in any moment, it involves video. And you're pressured to sort of uh translate your process in a video. It's a different medium. They are video artists. I know this is very much like you know, fuck you to the to the social media aspect. I know. But I'm like it feels unnatural. So it's unnatural to begin with, yeah. Because if you loved video, you would be doing the video. Literally, you would be a video artist, not a music artist. Literally, you know, sound artist. Yeah. So I feel like feeling uncomfortable, it's completely normal. It's not like that you're doing bad or you're like you're not good enough, or or like it's it's and then and then you know, I go on social media and see all these, I cringe so much, right? It's hard to find your voice. You have to find your voice. But I think it's um okay, now I I I've vented out. I was I love this because when you said you know, you're like you're maybe you're shy. I'm like, no, you you can still should stay shy, you know what I mean? Like I don't want you, you shouldn't change because of something that's mainstream. Yeah. But then I think the positive twist there is like how can thinking, okay, so how can I, you know, survive in this climate? Because everything else, like everything that I just said, is pretty much like suicide, like career suicide. I'd be like thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like you have to find that voice, and I think it is a point of like, okay, so how do I want to tell this story? I don't want to follow what everyone is doing because then everyone is doing it. So no one will watch this.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Like it the only thing that you carry and each one of us is being authentic, like being ourselves, especially being shot on camera. Sorry, this was what was now my spiel. I get really like heated about this because I really just, you know, sometimes I would see artists that I respect, and then they, you know, have those videos that I really don't respect. And then it really changes the view of I'm like, hey, don't do that, you know. Right. But yeah, it's hard.
SPEAKER_00:I'm just trying to work out that balance. Like you said, like it feels inauthentic sometimes to like present myself in maybe other ways that people present themselves. Like and but at the same time, it's really important to share your work because then people know what's up or they feel more connected to your work and your process. And I enjoy watching content where people are sharing some of their work. Yeah, I agree. But yeah, how do I stay authentic and it's it's something I'm trying to figure out? Have you worked it out?
SPEAKER_01:Um I think I'm getting better now this year. Um, it's like uh I just figured out I'm just gonna film everything that I'm doing. I actually heard one once I was at some sort of meetup and someone said, you know, just like film your process. And I was like, Well, my process, I don't know. Sometimes it takes hours. I'm just like zooming in on the waveform, like there's nothing, like nothing happened, you know what I mean? But sometimes I have this moment of it's like, wow, great, but it's in my head, it's not it's not visible. Yeah, but now I'm just like filming myself as much as I got this camera, just filming myself, like having rehearsals at home. Um, I don't know, just trying to film things while I'm doing that without any plans. Because I think last year I was like, oh, I have to plan this, and then and then I think that's where I started to feel really sort of shame shame, like, oh, and you know, I'm planning this too much, you know, this is taking too much space, like mental space, also. And now I'm just like, I'm just gonna film and then have one day every fortnight. Okay, let me see what the footage is. Can I turn it into content and then doing that ahead of time? Okay. But look, I still haven't started publishing, like putting out anything for this year. So I think it's just about um considering it as part of your work. And because it's really there's really no right way around it, I don't I don't think. And yeah, when you say, you know, how how your process, how to film your process. Yeah. Maybe it's just about getting a small camera and getting into the practice of filming. Literally just putting in somewhere, filming it every day, maybe changing the position and then seeing if that can be. I don't know. Yeah. I I I don't feel like I know.
SPEAKER_00:But do you like put time aside to make content or like edit things together like once a week? Do you have a little routine? Yeah. I think that might help me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I w I wanted to ask you, do you have a routine? With with my creative work? With your work, yeah, with your you know, will you wake up like okay?
SPEAKER_00:No. It changes every day, but actually I've realized I always thought I'm not a morning person. Okay, and then I've realized that um there was a section of time where I was waking up at 7 30 every day. Okay. And you know, having that slow morning, not looking at my phone, doing my morning pages, like reading, and just slowly starting the day, and all of a sudden I was less stressed and you were a morning person.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I'm trying to get back there, even just slowly trying to wake up earlier, even if it feels like it hurts a little bit. Because I feel like naturally I like staying up late, and sometimes if there's a big deadline and I need to make work for it, I do find that I can yeah, work quite hard from you know 5 pm to after 5 pm. So it's finding that balance. Um, but yeah, not really a routine, but I'm trying to be in my body more and out of my head, and I think like light exercise helps me. Um but yeah, it's forming. That process is slowly forming. But I think morning might be good. And sleep tea at night. If I have my sleep tea, I'm happy. Oh, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I got into teas uh recently, a few years ago, also sleep teas, and I was like, what is this? You know, like you get sleep like this sometimes. I'm like, wow. I'm like, no one told me about this.
SPEAKER_00:I could just be knocked out in the gray.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly, exactly. Yeah, it's really crazy. Yeah. But do you um I I st I'm still interested in your some like I feel like, you know, not everyone maybe wants to answer this, but you're a full-time artist, which means that you can sustain yourself financially. How is the process? How do you feel about the process of I know it's like up and down, of course. Yeah, that's it's really, yeah, um, unstable in that sense. But how do you feel about artist fees and how is that? I guess the first question is do you think that um do you do you always have to negotiate and have that just uncomfortable situation?
SPEAKER_00:Is it still uncomfortable? For sure. I think like it's really helped me to work with Yang, especially for my music bookings, because otherwise my rate would have been the same, stayed the same for the last three years. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:I know, I know. There's a reason why artists need agents.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't even know like how to negotiate, and in fact, felt a bit bad about asking for money.
SPEAKER_01:Especially, you know, in this niche industry, I'm guessing you know everyone. Well, I mean, not everyone, but you know, like I do know, yeah. It's always like a mutual friend of a friend, and then is it a friendly price?
SPEAKER_00:You know what I mean? I know. And so all of those feelings and if it's a community event or charity, whatever, like I'm so down. I'm always down for that kind of thing because those gigs like make me feel really good and um yeah, feel like more of a a community practice. Yeah. So it depends, but then if it's like an institution or like a bigger thing, I think now, just after like seeing Yang negotiate as well, I understand like what it means to negotiate and what the rates, different rates sort of mean. And also, like, you know, you could probably get paid for an interstate geek, but there's so many things that go into it, like maybe costuming um flights, you know, if you're with Jet Star and get fined a couple of times on the way there and back with all your music equipment.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man. Did you try to like I actually managed to hide my equipment between people when I was like traveling to Dark Morpho, and I was like, no, I'm not gonna pay, I'm not gonna pay any extra. I don't wanna have and then I sort of like smuggled, I met some people in the queue and I was like, hey, can you please help me? And we managed and I managed to do it. I was like, whoa, I can't believe like it was a whole suitcase that they didn't, but that was just once. Then yeah, I had I paid a few times.
SPEAKER_00:Right? Yeah, I'm I'm done, man. I'm done. But yeah, all of those are hidden prices and like you know, accommodation, getting to and from places.
SPEAKER_01:Food, you know what I mean? You have to eat exactly before you're getting exactly. Do you want me to faint?
SPEAKER_00:Right, yeah. All of those things really add up, and so the fee is really not the fee. And so I think just over time you get more confident with estimating how much things actually take and how much thing things or like how much money's actually gonna be in your pocket at the end. Yeah. Um, but I'm still not good at negotiating. It's not this people.
SPEAKER_01:To have like a person, I think that's you know, it's it's also, you know, someone else can be objective and yeah, that's the whole role of the agent, not just hustling for more further gigs, but it's just about you know, removing you from the because yeah, you're s very subjective. You don't look at that as work, although it's like full-time work. Yeah, it's uh there's a lot of labor. Of course. You know, it's not just and it's performance, yeah. And I think it's the society, you know, it's just embedded in the society that it's like a fun activity rather than actual work.
SPEAKER_00:But it's a lot, and even just like grant applications, all these other things, that's a full-time job.
SPEAKER_01:We have we're surrounded by animals. Nice, good on them, good on them, they're thriving, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But that's yeah, that's like full-time admin and stuff. I think I'm really good at negotiating artist fees for other people though. Because again, it's less about you and more like ah, this just has to be it. Like it's more objective, you know what I mean? You see the work shots, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you get it, yeah. Anyways, it's hard though. How do you find it? Really hard, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like yeah, it's always like whatever, whatever I say, it's not good. You know what I mean? Like, not not on the other end, but like I feel bad. Yeah. Whenever I do a price, I'm like, oh yeah, this is a reasonable price, and then I send it off in an email. I'm like, oh no, good.
SPEAKER_00:And then if they accept straight away, it's just like, and then I'm like, I should ask for more. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So it's really I never know. And I'm I'm trying to, you know, be a friend to myself, like because I really am not good at that. And like I think that would be my thing for the series, like being a friend for myself, being there like as a sidekick rather than be like a judge, yeah, critic. Yeah, and it's just like, hey, you know, I think it's important to do this and be like sometimes have a higher price, uh, because you know, I don't I think it's also important for the promoters and others to know this is not free work. Exactly. This is supposed to be paid, exactly. And I'm like, oh, you know, you're doing a good thing for others, but I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I I'm I'm the same. It's pretty much really always uncomfortable. You just have to, yeah, you just have to do it. It's just not um absolutely, yeah. But um you grew up in an Ethiopian household. How how is your family? And your family runs a restaurant in Footscray, yes, Rust. Shut up. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go there eat, you know. Yeah, I I I don't think I've had uh Ethiopian food yet. Maybe once if there's a restaurant um here somewhere in Collingwood. Yeah, there might be ages ago, but yeah. Um now we're the best. We're the best. I and the reviews say so too. I must say. I'm there uh tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00:Nice.
SPEAKER_01:Uh like how would they what do they think about you know your career right now, your career choices? Are they supportive?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely. They're so supportive, maybe a little confused at times, um, of like how do you make money? Are you okay with stuff? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine, you know, there's definitely ups and downs, but I think yeah, they're they're super supportive, and that's all that matters. Like, I did my recital for school uh at the end of 2023, and that was the first time I ever sang in front of them. Um yeah, yeah, I've been shy, man, when I say because you say you've been singing your entire life. Yeah, but for myself, like that's really in in hiding at school and wow in my room. Um and yeah, it's just been such a big dream of mine. Uh but yeah, that was the first time I sang in front of them. Um, and I think since that moment I had a full band, it was like one of my favourite gigs ever till this day. Uh all my friends were there, and it just felt like I was there. I was very present and worked so hard to get to that point. Nice. Um, so yeah, one they were there and they were really happy and they cried and I cried, and I think since that moment they're like, okay, you you do your thing, it's fine. Um so yeah, they've been so supportive. And they came to China with me. I went to China for like a live coding conference. Oh, I saw that conference. I don't know why I thought I didn't know that it was in China. Yeah, in Shanghai, and like I'd never been to China. It's like so amazing. And um it was my first international gig too, and so so grateful to like meet other live coders from other countries for the first time. That yeah, my parents were like, We're coming to China, and I was like, ah, coming to China. So we had a little family trip and my brother as well. That's really cool. Yeah. So I've been very lucky, every, very lucky.
SPEAKER_01:That's really nice. And how do you feel? Do you feel connected with like do you speak the language? Do you do you go back ever? Have you been to your homeland?
SPEAKER_00:I've been three times, like when I was five and twelve, and I think fifteen or something. So I haven't been back in oh nearly 15 years, hey, that's crazy. Um but I wanna really go back um once the conflict calms down a little bit in my mum's area. Okay, it's okay in the city, so I can still go to the city, but yeah, I'd like to go back. But Amharic is my first language. Um my parents blessed them. I'm really happy they did this, but they only spoke to me and my brother in Amharic. And then we went to kindergarten and primary school here, and that's when we learnt English. Yeah. Um, which is yeah, like I'm fluent in English and I think in English now actually, but I'm really grateful to have my language and to understand my language. I'm able to speak with or I was able to speak with my grandparents and my whole family when we went back home. Yeah, over there, yeah. Yeah, and like some of my music is in Amhara. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um and you speak, you still speak with your parents at home, like I'm guessing. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Sometimes, you know, some English words come in and a bit broken here and there, but they probably say no, no. Yeah, yeah. They don't want me.
SPEAKER_01:Do you feel the same? Yeah, like when I speak with my well, uh I'm all I'm here with my partner, but like in my entire family, everyone is back in Croatia. Yeah. So when I speak like over video, like when I go back to Croatia, you know, I'm just really trying hard not to use uh, you know, um English words here and there, but sometimes it's just hard. Some I feel like some parts of my identity are now, you know, sort of, you know, moulding or like getting those English parts inside, and it's really hard to then even express yourself. Not entirely. I'm not I've been here only what for like six years. No, for sure. But yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah. I feel like it's uh it's an but it is like it like something rich, I feel like, and I've really it's really good that you, you know, can speak the language. I I think that's like such a rich thing that like it would be really harder, much harder right now.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. Um I've always been so grateful for it because yeah, I wasn't even born in Ethiopia, but I have been given this gift of my language and and connection to my culture that you know has shown up in my music, but yes, more so just my life. Like I'm just so grateful to have it and language can open up yeah, different personalities, even like two different parts of yourself or you expansion expansion package, so well said, yeah, I I agree.
SPEAKER_01:I really think that it's so cool. Um well one last question I'd say, or maybe two. Yeah, go on. What was the best advice that you were ever given? Wow. If you can recall.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I haven't thought about this in ages. But my friend Chi, I'm pretty sure it was Chi, we're just talking about um work and like we're both perfectionists, and actually me and Chi Chan, uh, who is a poet and like a beautiful singer and a violinist, we uh performed together for the first time. Well, like that was my first proper performance, and we did a couple like singing together, and we were very similar and like perfectionist, shy, and like that kind of thing is so good. Um very healing for me to share that experience with someone else. But she told me, I think it was before sharing my EP. Uh, she said, like work needs to live in the world. Um, because I was just so and like grow in the world, and what she meant was I don't know, I was just so shy about sharing something that felt undone or unfinished, and I didn't know if it would ever feel finished because I was such a critic on my own work and myself. But she was like, no, it needs to be shared and it needs to grow in the world and to be, you know, like perceived by other people who can maybe resonate with it and add to it. Um but yeah, it needs to live on past you. You need to give it life by sharing it, um, or more life. And I just I I have felt really connected to that, I think. And it's helped me like let go of things feeling done. Cause I don't think they ever feel done. No.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, that's so nice. Yeah. What about you? I think okay, just the one that I'm uh thinking right now. Um is like it was actually um from a book that I've read last year. Um it's called um uh Daring Greatly. Yeah. Renee Brown or something? Yeah, Renee Bron Bronte or something. Yeah, she had a TED talk as well. Um I think it was just I think we mentioned this in in the podcast in our conversation. I think it was um I always just uh felt it's similar to you. I maybe that's why it reminded me. I don't know. I I always um you know, she was talking about, you know, whenever you create something and then and it can be anything, not necessarily art, you and you give it to people, you know, it's like getting into this arena, you know, surrounded in this amphitheater where you know everyone can say something, of course.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But it's also about, you know, the this act of vulnerability, and I think this m resonates more with art, like and actually, you know, expressing yourself without any barriers and without any fakeness, I guess. Like really being honest about it is actually a a really brave thing to do, but it's also something that the only thing that can that I guess can do something to people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And n n nothing else can change, you know, or affect people, or like I don't know, yes, and and I remember when I read that, I was like, yeah, I guess, you know, you know, because sometimes I wonder, you know, what's the point of anything that I'm doing? Like why am I doing this, you know? And I know this is not the best question, it's a bit, you know, uh existential, but I do I am inclined to asking myself that question often. And then I feel, you know, sometimes I had people coming over to me and saying, hey, you know, you know, I was really touched by your work or I was really emotional resonated. And yeah, that's when I realize that, you know, yes, I feel, you know, sometimes I really feel bad and exposed when I'm sharing, but I guess I do want to attract people who will accept that. Like, I don't know. So every time I feel like that, I'm just thinking, okay, so I hope if I'm really staying honest, that at least someone else will hear that and maybe I don't know, it will, you know, make a connection.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. So yeah. I really love that. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it is, because yeah, when you were saying that I felt like it actually sometimes I even wonder, you know, because you do p I'm sure that when you're creating you feel something. You feel a lot of things, right? Sometimes it's just like this like amazing drug or something, right? This it's very visceral. But I also think wonder you know, I I really do feel like the work that you do will only exist when it's shared. When people are present at your performances because it is very tangible, palpable, visceral, you know, you're live coding while you're singing, it's like I don't know, it needs to get out there, out of your room, out of your head, out of your heart. Thank you. Yeah. So I'm glad that you I'm glad that you've listened to your friend and didn't you know shy away.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, me too, we too. Because it yeah it also adds to your experience of the work once you let people in.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I feel like it's not it doesn't end with people. It actually goes back to you. And I think that's the tricky part. You know how often artists are like making the first record and they're like you know so innocent. They make it and it's the best record and then they struggle with the second one. I think it's because when they put it out they got feedback and the feedback is like messing up with the head and you were talking about it you know with the outcome and it's really hard.
SPEAKER_00:It is and I think after the first work I don't know there's a bit of a grief as well because it leaves you. It's like you had a baby. You know what I mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And it's letting go like that's a good practice of letting go of the control maybe.
SPEAKER_00:For sure for sure. So I think it you just need a rest for a while and collect more stories for the the next one like you know more research all the things but yeah I think after doing that first one and getting feedback it is interesting how you let that feedback define your practice or not define your practice does it change anything I don't know you question a lot of things why am I doing this again existentialism comes in.
SPEAKER_01:So existentialism is the worst but I guess you can look at it as a challenge like when I wake up positive when I'm like I'm like no it's a challenge. Yeah it's a challenge but sometimes yeah he's just like oh my goodness why right I just wanna you know send a few emails and be feel like I accomplished something. So true true so well Fitla I'm really glad that you took the time to meet with me. I'm so honored and happy and I hope you had a good time too I really did I'm honored and happy thank you so much for my flexible I'm not flexible either thank you oh my goodness we should that's I just want to do one like um Instax photo yellow yellow
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